On Oct. 22, THE EQUITY hosted a livestreamed conversation with the candidates running to be MRC Pontiac’s next warden. Candidates were asked eight questions – some in French, most in English – that were based on concerns and voting priorities collected in a survey THE EQUITY circulated. Questions and answers published here have been edited for clarity and length. Candidates introductions, and discussion portions of questions four and seven are not included here, but can be viewed in our video recording of the event below.
Q1: How will you approach bringing much needed economic development to the region, as warden?
Bouchard: Of course we’re a resource-first MRC, [with] a lot of lumber industry, a lot of mining before. And now we know we need to move away from that. We need to go to secondary and tertiary types of industries. Of course, going for agriculture, agritourism, and tourism, are the three main pillars on which we can build our economy. Of course it’s always hard to move away from something we know towards something that’s different, something that might not be in our wheelhouse, but I think it’s super important to be doing that. Because this is the future of the Pontiac. We know that in the last eight years things haven’t moved a whole lot, so I think we need to pursue those ventures and go even further with those.
Landry: The forestry industry is not necessarily dead but we have to reimagine it. There are possibilities in the wood industry, but not in the type of products we used to know. We have to be innovative, we have to think outside the box, so there is a possibility there. The biomass is a great resource to develop. Also in the agro-alimentaire – agriculture is a large part of the economy and I’ve noticed that it’s diversifying itself gradually, with products and services that are quite interesting. That would be good to promote and develop. But above all, I think that before any major industrial development we have to think of our energy network, because without any proper hydro or proper energy, we can’t attract Rio Tinto or . . . . so that would need to be looked into.
St-Cyr: I always work with objectives in my career, and I would like to ask to all mayors to get objectives of economic development. I’m not the guy who can say, ‘Oh could be good, could be bad,’ about business development projects. I think that all municipalities are different. We cannot ask the municipality of Chichester to do the same thing as the municipality of Bristol or Bryson. Anyway, I think that all the mayors and all the councillors, knows better than me what kind of people they have, what kind of resources they have, and what they can do in each of their municipalities. It’s for that reason I’d like to get an objective of each municipality to get at least one project per year of economic development.
Toller: I think the most important thing is to drive job creation and to attract investors, and our biggest employer is our hospital. We really have to protect our hospital and our doctors. I had focused on forestry and agriculture because I agree, there are innovative ways to have forestry. [ . . . ] We also have a lot of local wood producers that we really need to work more closely with. I think agritourism and just tourism in general has really taken on a life of its own. We have to, with agriculture, get the abattoir and Agrisaveur projects moving forward, and contrary to what’s been in the media, the solar project is far from over. Also a trade school for the youth. We have jobs in the trades that are needed [ . . . ] I think the opportunity to have carpentry and plumbing and electrical, it will keep our youth here, and those are good paying jobs.
Q2: [This question and the answers were given in French and translated to English by THE EQUITY.] A lot of our challenges in the Pontiac are of provincial jurisdiction. If you could speak with one provincial minister, which minister would you choose, and what would you tell them about our most pressing needs here in the Pontiac?
Landry: Ministre Madame Fréchette, la ministre du développement économique. I think that if we want to bring economic development, she’s the person to target. There are certainly plenty of other ministers . . . we have healthcare problems, we have education problems, but at the economic development level I’d be very keen to see Madame Frechette first, to explain to her our geo-economic situation.
St-Cyr: I’m a member of the Pontiac user committee for healthcare services in the Pontiac. [ . . . ] I would go see Minister Dubé, to show him what needs to happen in the Pontiac, based on where we are and where we need to go. We all know life expectancy in the Pontiac is lower than the Outaouais life expectancy, which is lower than the provincial average. [ . . . ] We have no reason to not have the same life expectancy as the best region in Quebec. And all of that is going to start with a better economy, which will lead to less stress and anxiety, which will have a great influence on the life expectancy of our seniors.
Toller: What I would say today to the Minister of Health Monsieur Dubé is that we have to change Bill 106, which will have devastating effects on our healthcare. It introduces a quota system that penalizes the salaries of our doctors, while the responsibilities of rural doctors are completely different from urban doctors. Our doctors have to work in emergency care, as well as in palliative care and long-term care, and care for hospitalized patients, and will be paid by the number of patients they see in family medicine. We must fight against this so we don’t lose a single doctor in the Pontiac because there’s an imminent threat we’ll see them leave to Ontario.
Bouchard: It’s certain we have challenges in health care, with the economy, with forestry, with primary resources. We have challenges as big as, if not bigger than the Outaouais. The Outaouais is very forgotten in Quebec, and I think we must absolutely stand together with people across the Outaouais and that a big delegation from the Outaouais show up in Quebec and make their voices heard because it’s all of us that are punished, and even more so when we’re a little further away. So I think it’s really through concerted action that we’ll get the ear of one or several ministers, and ideally the premier.So I think having a bigger delegation that insists on meetings with the ministers and premier could have a slightly stronger effect.
Q3: As warden, you’ll represent both anglophone and francophone communities. How do you understand those communities’ different needs, and how would you make sure those needs are fairly represented at the MRC level?
St-Cyr: The MRC of Pontiac is very rich because we have two languages. [ . . . ] I’m not a perfectly bilingual guy, but I try, and I will be more bilingual in the next future, when I’ll be with the mayors, then I can learn very fast. We all know we are bilingual, and we need to stay bilingual. For me it’s a richesse that we have in the province in Quebec. We are the only MRC that is bilingual, and we need to stay bilingual.
Toller: Fifteen out of 18 [Pontiac] municipalities have bilingual status. Now with Bill 96, all of these will have a major impact on the livelihoods of all Quebecers. In particular, I know that it’s very challenging for our English farmers and businesses who receive all communications from the government in French. It is true that our MRC and our municipalities do their best to translate, but I think we need more at an MRC level to help our constituents. Our council meetings at the moment are held in English, but we always invite people to speak in the language of their choice. [ . . . ] I think everyone should make the effort to be bilingual. I started later in life, in my sixties, and I’m not completely bilingual but working at it. [ . . . ] I think it’s very important that we never forget that and remember that in our roots, we’ve always been bilingual.
Bouchard: I’m fully bilingual. For me the day to day is whatever language people wish to use, so it’s not an obstacle for me. I do know that some of our anglophone constituents do need help with all the forms in French, so for me it would be important that we have a translation office at the MRC so people can drop there if they need help, or have all the paperwork that comes down from Quebec City, which is in French, translated in correct and proper English so that whenever the council of mayor has to take a decision, they have the sense of the law, and the exactitude of whatever was parachuted down from Quebec City.
Landry: I know it’s a touchy subject, and yes it’s something to be proud of to be bilingual. [Translated from French:] But there’s also the question of the culture. To preserve a language is to preserve one’s culture as well. And I’m not only talking about the French language, I’m also talking about other nationalities, because in the Pontiac we have several nationalities, including Indigenous people. And they, among other things, are fighting for the preservation of their language. So I think it’s a question of respect. [Back to English:] To be bilingual, like Josey says, it’s an asset to me. [ . . . ] But I think it’s to be conciliant, at the base, and to be respectful.
Q4: For the new candidates, why are you calling for change at the MRC, and how will you bring this change? But first, to Jane Toller, why, based on your past eight years, do you believe you should be given a third term in this position?
Toller: I feel that we have brought the MRC Pontiac from a devitalized state to, well revitalization has certainly started. It’s partially helped by the $5 million we received from municipal affairs. I feel that in the last eight years we’ve had lots of challenges, such as the flood of 2019, and then watching that flooding since, I’m very absorbed with that. I think COVID-19 was another challenge. Now we’ve got the hydro outages, and I feel we have a modernization plan in place but it’s just too far off in the future so we need urgency to have that rolled out, and it’s certainly not the only reason we’re having all of these outages. When you’re trying to move a region forward with economic development, it’s very difficult when you’ve got power outages, plus to say nothing of the people that rely on it, as well as the hospitals. One thing that I offer for this next term is the opportunity to complete some of my original 11 priorities. I believe you need to start with a plan. I have accomplished quite a bit of my original list, but there are some things I think I’m the only person that will see them through, for example the Pontiac pool. Another would be forestry. I think I am the most motivated candidate to see a community forest in the Pontiac, and to also see a solution for pulp and biomass.
Bouchard: I think motivating people to working together is something that’s an asset for me. I feel that a lot of priorities makes our MRC disperse its effort into focusing on two or three objectives. More than that, makes it very hard and very like we’re going here and there and everywhere. I feel that $5 million is not a whole lot. I think we should be getting more. We know the Outaouais has always been underfunded, and I think the Pontiac has always been underfunded. There are similar regions to us who have far greater funding so we have to find the root cause of why we’re being underfunded. And I feel that sometimes we need to speak to the reason why we might not be funded as equally as the others. So I think we need to dig a lot and focus on a few issues to get those done. Too many issues makes us dispersed and does not bring about results. You’re saying we’re doing better. We’re still second to the last in the province, in the last eight years nothing has moved. So I think we need new blood, and new ideas.
Landry: Yes we do need change, definitely. I think we need change of perspective, a change in our way of seeing things, a change in our vision. We’re lacking patriotism. It seems that ever since the forestry crisis a few years back, we’ve lost courage, we’ve lost our identity, we’ve lost confidence in ourselves, and we need to regain that. To look at things in a different way, we have to think outside the box, and we have to be open, have an open dialogue with the community, with the table of mayors, and with the employees at the MRC, because they have a great deal to do with whatever accomplishments we may produce. So I think we have to open our minds and be more positive. One gentleman told me, ‘You know, whenever a region is economically depressed, its citizens are also depressed.’ So I think we need to work on that. We need to boost our ego, and give ourselves confidence and hope.
St-Cyr: I’m 100 per cent with Mr. Landry. When the economy is depressed, everybody is depressed. Kids are depressed. As a member of the [user committee] and because I am a representative of Pontiac at the Outaouais region [user committee], we saw a lot of bad numbers about the Outaouais, and in the Pontiac, it’s bad on every line. The only trick that we need to re-put good numbers on those lines, it’s to work on economic development projects. And this is the only way we can go where we were. Now where do we need to go? Which one do we need to choose? It’s not for me and it’s not for the MRC to choose. The municipalities know better than me and everybody what kinds of projects they can do in their own municipalities. When you have a very good project, and when it’s bankable, after that we can go to the Government of Quebec and say ‘I have a good project there, and this is time to invest.’
Q5: We want to hear from you on if, and where, you think municipalities should be sharing services to save taxpayers money, and how you would encourage this as warden at the council of mayors.
Bouchard: I think everybody is taxed enough. We’re all at the max of what can be happening. I think being many municipalities together will help alleviate a lot of the costs and will help maintain all the taxes at a reasonable rate. If we can do it for fire coverage, why not see what else can we do. Let’s sit down and seriously talk about what we have, what we can share, to make sure that we don’t go out and buy a truck when it’s not necessary. So we need to be very strategic about whatever we have. Is there a way to share so we limit the taxpayers burden?
Landry: Yes it is a reality we have to face, unfortunately, especially being a community of small municipalities. Duplicating, we cannot afford to do so anymore. And like Josey was saying, the fire safety coverage plan is forcing us to look at that avenue because we have to comply with the safety cover plan. So it is a start. There are other fields, for instance in professional services. I look at certain municipalities where they have a hard time to hire DGs or administrative personnel. Well maybe if we could share those services, because now DGs’ responsibilities are way greater than back when I started where it was a secretary treasurer and all she did was collect tax, write out letters, and issue receipts.
St-Cyr: It’s a must for me, between the municipalities. They need to cooperate together. The need to do something together to less expenses, when it’s possible. First of all, I think we need to analyse what other municipalities do, and show that to the mayors. And they can maybe choose what they want to do. There is no place to duplicate services we can do in our MRC. There is no sense to do that. For example, I saw the project of the fire department, and it’s very logical. But we need to focus with our mayors where we can do the same thing. We need to do the most cooperation that we can do. And we can do the same thing with the other MRC too.
Toller: One of the things I’m hearing at the door is that taxpayers need us to do our very best to keep taxes affordable, and the evaluation, so that no one has to leave the Pontiac. The MAMH, as I said earlier, is now offering grants where municipalities have to work together. So we’re thinking less and less, especially at the MRC council of mayors table – you know they’re a mayor in their own municipality, but when they come to that table we’re looking for best practices and the best way, in a business-like way, for the sake of our taxpayers, to share and avoid duplication.
Q6: Knowing the MRC does have some power to control how property assessments are done and how municipal shares are calculated, what would you do as warden to ensure this system is fair for all?
Landry: I think that it is probably time to question the mathematics behind it, to see if it would be possible to change the way the evaluation is made, especially in defavourised parts of the province like ours, where the taxes are going up but our income isn’t and our population isn’t. Because we have to be aware that the more we have to chip into the pie, the smaller the pieces will be. So that is another way of looking at it, is that we need to increase the number of tax payers to alleviate the burden on everybody’s tax. So it’s a file that’s worth quite a bit of attention I think.
St-Cyr: I would like to mention the first job I did after my university degree was at an evaluation company, and actually they are using exactly the same file that we were using to evaluate properties. It’s a good system. In the MRC, it’s a very bad place to do what we have right now. It’s not normal to get what we have right now. We need to find a way to do better than we are. If we need to reevaluate all the properties in the MRC to get the perfect match between all municipalities, why not, if it costs half a million dollars . . . it’s the way to be fair.
Toller: The evaluation situation was caused by a real estate spike. One thing I’m really proud that our MRC council did is we have changed things so that the real estate spike, or comparative factor, can only be 50 per cent of the amount, and the other is based on the assessed value. We’re also allowing flexibility of the inspectors that come, so that when they see something unusual, that they don’t just say, ‘Well I guess it;s going to have a 370 per cent increase.’ That won’t happen anymore.
Bouchard: We know properties, because of covid, went way out of whack. Why was that not addressed before everybody got an increase in taxes beyond belief. So I think it’s super important to, whenever there is a problem like that, that we indeed take it into account before we start calculating, to avoid the tax shock that everybody received. And of course calculating difficulty, and getting everybody done in one year, let’s hire extra people and let’s get it done, so that way we don’t have such big discrepancies.
Q7: Do you believe the current level of transparency and accountability around MRC decision making is adequate, and if not, what would you do to improve it?
St-Cyr: The best way we can do business is to say the truth, and everybody has to know what’s happening at the MRC and what we are doing. It’s for that reason, when I’m planning to get some objectives with every municipality to get new projects, we need to do a round table at each meeting to know what’s happened in their municipality in business development.
Toller: I suggested [open plenary meetings] in 2018 but I didn’t have enough support, with the mayors. I think we can always be more transparent. And so what are some ways we can do that? Well we are now making sure we read out the resolutions and explain them beforehand. I think we could have the agendas available earlier. But another thing that I think is positive is when I was first elected, I noticed there was no question of conflict of interest on the agenda, and I was the one that asked for that, so that was a turning point. You need to know that everyone around the table declares if there is a conflict, or a perceived conflict.
Bouchard: In my opinion, no it’s not transparent enough. An MRC is a government level, and a government is there for everyone. The plenaries, as far as I’m concerned, should be strictly limited to, either there is something, a lawsuit of some sort, or its a human resources question. The rest should be dealt in [open] committees and the committees bring back their findings to the table of mayors. Right now, people feel they’re not heard because when it gets to the council of mayors, this is when the decision is made. They’ve not been through the process, they’ve not been through the reflection, they haven’t heard the expert talk to them or explain what’s happening, so of course there’s a level of frustration that’s quite understandable.
Landry: Transparency is a big word a lot of people seem to be using without honesty or without depthness of the meaning. Being transparent is informing the people with no hidden agenda, and it’s saying things as they are. Of course, certain things cannot all be revealed, but I think if the public is basically informed without going into details, and we have all kinds of means, if they are made aware of the basics of certain projects or decisions that will be taken in the near future, it would eliminate a lot of questions. [ . . . ] If you have a plan, what is that plan. If you have possibilities of a project, and there’s no jeopardy for the success of that project, why not put it out forward. I think the basics is information, and saying it as it is, and that is what transparency is. And I think it could be changed at the MRC. It could be improved.
Q8: [This question and the answers were given in French and translated to English by THE EQUITY.] Outside of politics, what qualities do you possess as individuals that make you the best candidate to lead this MRC into the future.
Toller: In my opinion, for this position of warden, there are many qualities that are very necessary. I am a leader. I’m a person with action, with urgency for the Pontiac. In my heart, I want Pontiac to succeed. Revitalization. Also, I have a lot of experience. It’s very important to understand matters in the Pontiac, the challenges, the issues. [ . . . ] I am almost bilingual but the reality is that a lot of people speak in English. I am a defender of bilingualism. It’s very important for the Pontiac.
Bouchard: I’m perfectly bilingual, it’s been over 20 years that I’ve worked in politics, more so behind the scenes but still fairly actively. So I know regional, provincial and federal leaders, so all the people who might come support us in all we have to do. For me, the Pontiac, it’s a love story. I love the people from here, I love the youth that I taught, and I absolutely want to see them return here and have the chance to have a job that will bring them back here. [ . . . ] It’s certain that for me, I’ll devote myself to defending the Pontiac until my last breath.
Landry: I think my experience across various domaines, including at the municipal level, because I was a councillor from 2000 to 2002, and from 2017 until today; I’ve sat on various committees, including of CPE 1-2-3 Picabou; I’m also at l’Office de l’habitation du Pontiac, and different committees that I’m forgetting, but I think it gives me a good knowledge of the territory and the needs here. It’s important to understand the realities of every community to be able to defend our region. But it’s also about keeping a dialogue going, being open, being transparent, being honest, believing in our region, which I’ve been doing for 60 years. This is why I’m still here in the Pontiac.
St-Cyr: When we have self-confidence, everything is open to us. I have confidence in myself to be able to make a difference in the Pontiac, and to bring it, now or in four years, a good number of people who work outside the Pontiac will be able to return to working in the Pontiac with good salaries. Another statistic is that the average Pontiac salary is about $31,000 a year. So we have to find projects in a new economy that bring added value. It does us nothing to compare ourselves or to return to the wood industry. We have to go find other places where we’ll be able to make better salaries.
